Is Polygamy Bibilical

It's no secret that mainstream Mormonism used to practice plural marriages.  In fact, their official statement of polygamy is...

"The Bible and the Book of Mormon teach that the marriage of one man to one woman is God’s standard, except at specific periods when He has declared otherwise."  -Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah (www.lds.org)

The story goes like this.  Back in the early 1840s, Mormonism was under a lot of persecution.  Mormon were being either killed or jailed, leaving more women than Priesthood holders.  Since a temple marriage to a priesthood holder is needed for salvation and exaltation, something needed to be done.  God then spoke to Joseph Smith and allowed the Saints to begin the practice of polygamy.  This practice was done for around 50 years until President Woodruff stated he would follow the letter of the law and he un-instituted plural marriages.  However, they were still done and sanctioned by the LDS church for another 14 years after that, "on an exceptional basis...especially in Mexico and Canada, outside of the jurisdiction of U.S. law; a small number of plural marriages were performed within the United States during those years."

This is when the Fundamentalist Mormons came about.  These people did not want to stop practicing plural marriages because they felt that the doctrine came straight from God, and no earthly law trumps God's.  These people practice polygamy to this day and strive to follow all Joseph Smith's prophecy and teachings.  However, they are not to be confused with mainstream Mormonism, the guys who come to your door on bicycles.

Though I have much to say on the fact that Mormonism still practiced polygamy in the states after it was made illegal (even though most Mormons will argue they stopped immediately after it was made illegal), or the fact that the LDS church allowed people - including Joseph Smith - to marry other women who already had husbands or girls as young as 14 years old (utlm.org for more info), I'm not going to.  I've left the link should you decide to do some of your own research.  Instead, I will target their claim that God allowed for plural marriages in the Bible and refute the idea.

The Bible VS Polygamy 

Whenever I've asked Mormons about the practice of plural marriage, they always roll their eyes.  It's like the topic has become old hat and most have become calloused to.  Most of the time, their go to answer to shut any further discussion down is how God condoned his prophets for entering into polygamous relationships.  The most common examples Mormons reference is either Abraham or King David.  And if one is not even decently familiar with their Bible, they may have lost an opportunity to share the gospel.  So allow me to give you some Biblical context to their argument.

Sarai was getting anxious as she was not bearing any children for Abram, and she blamed God for it (Gen 16:2).  So, she took matter into her own hands and gave her handmaid Hagar to Abram.  [It is important to note that God didn't tell her to do this, she did it on her own out of impatience.  Nowhere in scripture is it said that God spoke to her and told her to do this, nor does it say that Abram was told by God to take Hagar as his mistress.]  Abram gave in to his wife's pleadings and slept with Hagar and she bore a son, Ishmael, when Abram was 86 years old.  13 years later, God changed his (Gen 17:5) and his wife's name (Gen 17:15) and then told Abram "I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee" (Gen 17:6-7).  Then, Abraham and Sarah had Isaac, whom the nation of Israel was from.  Then, due to jealousy, Sarah demanded that Abraham dismiss Haggar and Ishmael, which grieved Abraham but God said that he would bless them both but to listen to his wife and send them away (Gen 21:12-13).  [Now, historically speaking, Ishmael's descendants became modern day Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. and other Muslim nations].  So, while God did bless Abraham and keep his covenant with His people, Abraham's impatience and questioning God led to the creation of a people that have been battling His people for years.

In King David's case, it was coveting that brought about polygamy, not God.  2 Samuel 11 tells of the time that King David looked upon Bathsheba with lust, arranged for an adulterated meeting, where she became pregnant.  Instead of coming clean, he designed a way to have her husband, Uriah, one of King David's champion soldiers to be killed, so that he could hide his sin from the world.  "But the thing that David had done displeased Jehovah" (2 Sam 11:27b).

Both of these, and all the other examples of polygamy you might find in the Bible, are hardly examples of God being "okay" with polygamy.  Nowhere in these or any other story shows God condoning polygamy.  God never commands anyone to marry multiple women, or a woman to an already married man.  God made it clear in Genesis how He designed marriage - one man, one woman (Gen 2:22-24).

Argument #1: He didn't tell me not to do it!  So, one might make the claim that God allowing these men to do it, or better yet, not commanding them not to, could be interpreted as God being ok with polygamy.  However, sin exists, even in the most devout.  Need an example? Read the Bible.  It is jam packed with examples of everyone being plagued by it.  (Everyone, except Jesus of course!)  We all know that sin is the polar opposite of God yet God allows for us to go through it for His glory.  Polygamy is no different.  Just because God allows His people to fall, does not mean that the action is sanctioned by Him.  Permitting sin is not the same as condoning sin.

Argument #2: He blessed me so it must be ok!  One might then make the blessing argument.  "God only blesses the righteous."  Since God would never bless a sinful relationship, then the fact that He blessed Ishmael's descendants, or King David's reign, or Abraham, or whoever, proves that they acted within God's laws.  The only problem with this argument is that it is totally un-Biblical.  Show me the verse in the Bible that says only perfect people receive His blessings?  While it is true that God blesses those who have a Biblical marriage, it is also true that He blesses homosexuals, liars, thieves, criminals, atheists, and the Dallas Cowboys.  Surely you don't think all of these people are living a holy lifestyle.  You see, God blesses whomever He chooses to bless, regardless of status, wealth, and lifestyle.  "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD." (Isaiah 55:8).  "Is it not lawful for me [the LORD] to do what I will with mine own? or is thine eye evil, because I am good?" (Matt. 20:15)  God will bless who He wants according to His own desires.  Take my life for example.  I sin everyday.  I break His laws time and time again, yet my wife loves me, my kids love me, I have a great job, and, most importantly, I am saved by the blood of the lamb.  I am truly undeservingly blessed beyond measure.  If this argument were true and God really worked like this, does that mean that every sin I commit is "ok" in the eyes of God?  Of course not.  

The truth is, God does not agree with polygamy.  Not now, not back in Biblical times, not ever.  The Bible says that God never changes (Num 23:19, Heb 13:8, James 1:17), which means neither does His laws or His views.  When God created the world, He made one man for one woman.  Period.  Mankind is the one who introduced polygamy.  Mankind is the one who tried to bend the rules.  Man is responsible for this perversion of marriage, not God.  In my opinion, the Mormon era of polygamy was created because a lot of men were deviants.  They wanted more than what God had in store for them, and when they found themselves in a position of power they abused it.  They allowed their own selfish desires to control them and led their followers into destructive lifestyles, all in the name of "righteousness".

If you're Mormon, I hope this shakes you to your core.  You have been lied to and deceived.  Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the other prophets were not following God when they decreed polygamy to be permissible by God.  That is simply not true.

If you are not Mormon, I hope this has given you a bit more to talk to your Mormon friends about.  Let this be a gateway into heavier conversations about the true God and His gospel.  Use this information to spread the good news of His glory and bring more lost sheep into His fold.

Lastly, if there is something you can take away, let it be this:  Bad things happen to those who go against God's design.  Sarah found that out the hard way.  So did Abraham.  So did David.  So have countless other people.  Don't be one of them.

Are you saved?

"As I understand what is meant by the good Christians who speak in these terms, we are "saved" when we sincerely declare or confess that we have accepted Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior.  This meaning relies on the words the Apostle Paul taught the Christians of his day: "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Rom. 10:9-10).  To Latter-day Saints, the words saved and salvation in this teaching signify a present covenant relationship with Jesus Christ in which we are assured salvation from the consequences of sin if we are obedient.  Every sincere Latter-day Saint is "saved" according to this meaning.  We have been converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, we have experienced repentance and baptism, and we are renewing our covenants of baptism by partaking of the sacrament."

Elder Dallin H. Oaks

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Excerpt from "Have You Been Saved?"

--------------------

     All of Christianity points to Jesus.  The gospel is framed around His death and resurrection and how it provided justification to God through His selfless and undeserved act towards mankind.  That is why a majority of Christians talk about being 'saved' because it is that hope that we rejoice over.  So whenever the Bible, the gospel, Jesus, God, etc. is brought up, most Christians will inevitably ask, "Are you saved?"  But what does that mean?  How does a person know if they are saved?  What are we saved from?    

     Well, let me tell you what being 'saved' doesn't mean.  It does not mean a person is saved from physical death.  "For as in Adam all die..." (1 Cor 15:22a).  Everyone will die.  This is the inevitable conclusion to our life on this earth.  Furthermore, being 'saved' isn't a reference to a bodily resurrection either.  "Having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust." (Acts 24:15).  The Bible says that there are two different types of people:  Those that believe in Jesus and those that don't.  However, the Bible says that it doesn't matter which side of that coin you are on, you will be resurrected.  So, since both the believer and the non believer will be brought back to life then being 'saved' cannot be a reference to our resurrection.  If it were, the question would render itself useless as the answer would always be 'yes'.

     So, what does it mean?  When a Christian asks if you are saved, they are asking about your eternal destination.  Essentially, "Are you going to heaven or hell?"  But, it's actually more involved than just that.  You see, being 'saved' implies two things:  1) That there is something to be saved from and 1) there is a person or thing that can do the saving.
     The thing to be saved from is an eternity apart from God.  Hell is very real and it is not a place one would like to go.  There's a "fiery lake of burning sulfur" (Rev 21:8) where there is a lot of  "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt 13:50).  It's a place where people suffer in eternal punishment, where your soul and resurrected body is destroyed (Matt 10:28).  This is why the Bible calls it the second death (Rev 20:13-14, 21:8).  Basically, you don't want to go there...ever.  

     Now that we know what we need to be saved from, we need to address who does the saving.  The To this, the Bible is very clear.  "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12). His death on the cross was sufficient to satisfy God's requirement for justice.  It is by His blood that we are saved from the torment and destruction that awaits us because of our sinful lives.  "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal lfie..."

     So, when a person says they are saved, what they are saying is that Jesus Christ died on a cross for them.  They are exclaiming that their sins have been paid for in full by the blood of Jesus, and that they are no longer destined for hell.  They are saying that nothing they've done has warranted salvation in any sense of the word and are proclaiming that they have put all of their trust in Jesus to completely redeem them before God.  They are saved from that punishment and torment and will instead enjoy everlasting bliss and will spend an eternity with God in heaven and bask in His glory.  

     Now I can hear my Mormon friends and family saying, "Oh, well I believe that.  So, I guess by your definition, I am saved!"  I mean, that's essentially what Elder Oaks said.  But hold on a second.  You guys are most likely still misunderstanding me.  You see, the problem is that Mormonism is guilty of high-jacking Christian vernacular.  They use the same words but have different meanings.  Let me spell it out even more, so that there will be no more confusion.  When Christians talk about Jesus they mean the Jesus of the Bible, the one who is equal to God, the creator of all the universe, the Alpha and the Omega, the second member of the Godhead, God with us, God in the flesh, the Jesus who is literally God.  When Christians say that their sins are forgiven they mean that every sin - whether past, present or future - have been washed away and they stand blameless before God.  When a Christian says that there is nothing they can do they mean that it is only through their faith in Jesus they are redeemed.  They are admitting their good deeds amount to nothing and that salvation is found solely by calling on the name of Jesus.  When a Christian speaks of the afterlife, they have the belief that you can go only one of two places: heaven or hell.  When a Christian says hell, they are referring to a place of great anguish and torment, a place that is not only a fiery prison but a place where you are eternally separated from God.  When a Christian says heaven they are referring to that place in the afterlife, where God the father is seated enthroned, His angels singing His praise, and the body of believers will enjoy everlasting peace and joy.  

     Here is where the proverbial rubber meets the road.  A distinction is starting to form in your minds between Mormon theology and Christian theology.  You see, it is only when we define these common terms and get down to the substance of it all that we can actually get anywhere.  If we are using this definition of 'saved', the definition that all Christians are using, then most Mormons would likely have admit that they are not saved.  Oh, but wait...I can hear my friends forming arguments in their heads:

• Who are you to tell who is saved and who isn't?
• This is all based on YOUR definitions and interpretations
• What authority do you have to speak for these other Christians on what salvation means?
• Your premises are all way off, buddy!
• If you knew the fullness of the gospel, then you'd see we're not that different.  
• We know more about this stuff than you because of our modern day prophets and revelations.
• You're playing the semantics game!

     Look, lets just be honest.  All of Christianity believes on 'my' definition of being saved.  That is just simple fact.  If you don't believe me, go and talk to a pastor at any Christian church near you and find out for yourself.  Have them read this blog if you're having trouble conveying 'my' definition.  Seriously, do it!  I'm 100% positive that they'll confirm it.  And you know why?  Because that is what being 'saved' means.  And this is because it is not my definition but the Bible's.  

     Furthermore, the most important part of going to heaven is getting to be in the presence of God the Father.  Yes, it is a beautiful paradise where joy and suffering are no more, but that is because we are in the presence of the Holy One.  In Mormonism, this "heaven" is only accomplished if one makes it to the Celestial kingdom, which is the highest of their three degrees of glory.  As such, Christians would define the other two Mormon "heavens" as just better versions of hell.  My friend Kevin Young from the band Disciple says it best in their song "My Hell".   

"This was my hell

living without you here

Even heaven is hell

if somehow You were not there"

     But, in order to go to that heaven, Mormons teach that in addition to believing in Jesus there are other things that you must do or receive to be admitted.  "There are three kingdoms, or degrees of glory...[and] the Lord has prescribed requirements for eternal life in the celestial kingdom.  We must receive the testimony of Jesus, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and keep the commandments (see D&C 76:51-52).  We must overcome all things by faith and be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (see D&C 76:53,60). [Furthermore,] we must comply with the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (see D&C 131:1-3)." (click here for more information).  

     Using the correct definition of 'saved' includes a part where there is absolutely nothing we can do to be saved.  Or in other words, anything we do will not help our situation.  We cannot get a better seat in heaven if we obey more than any body else, or send a check to humanitarian efforts, or help an old lady cross the street.  Salvation, being saved, getting into heaven rests completely on the efforts and blood of our Savior, Jesus.  By contrast, Mormonism teaches that you need Jesus, but you also need to be baptized and get married in the LDS Temple, among other things.  Do you see the difference?  Are you listening?  If not, let me make it as clear as day.

• The Mormon equivalent to Christian heaven is the Celestial Kingdom
  
• How does one get to heaven/celestial kingdom?
  
• Biblical Christian's answer: JESUS
  
• Mormon's answer: JESUS, BAPTISM, TEMPLE MARRIAGE, KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS AND THE OTHER ORDINANCES OF THE GOSPEL, RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT

*Keep in mind, I am only talking about being saved, salvation, or what the Bible calls "Justification."  Yes, keeping the commandments, baptism, etc. are important, but they are used for sanctification, or the process of making one Holy.  They are, however, completely unnecessary and useless in terms of Justification.  

Now do you see the difference in theology?

     The Bible says there is no other name by which you are saved.  That means that only Jesus can save you.  He is the way.  Period.  So, if you pair Jesus' blood and work on the cross with anything else (ceremonies, actions, ordinances, etc.) then it becomes a gospel of Jesus+, and that is straight up heresy.  Besides, Jesus does not need your help to save you.  I mean, why would God need your help to do anything?  He's all powerful, all knowing, all creating, all glorious, and completely Holy.  And you are....well...you.

     Instead of listening to Nephi (2 Nephi 25:23) and LDS prophets and Quorum members tell you that it takes Jesus+ to be 'saved', why not just trust the words of Jesus?

 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life.   No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." (John 10:9)

"Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.  Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live" (John 11:25)

"Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent. ...Truly, truly I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.  For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. ...I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. ...For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:29-40)

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.  He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." (John 5:24)

Who are we?

Our views, especially religious based, depend a lot on how we view ourselves.  Our perception regarding who we are, our place, our lot in life molds and shapes how we live out our lives.  Our actions are mostly dictated by these presuppositions.  I assume that most people view themselves as being a 'good' person.  As such, they take care to live in a way that reinforces this self-perception.  They may give to charity, coach in their spare time, feed the homeless, or other such selfless acts. On the other hand, if a person views them self as being worthless then they might live their life in doom and gloom, thinking that nothing they do matters or makes any difference in the world or the lives of the people around them.  Perception is everything.  

I was talking to a Mormon friend of mine the other day and we got on the topic of who we are, according to God and the Bible.  Basically, are we 'good' people or not?  After a few minutes, we quickly came to the conclusion that we completely disagreed with each other.  I wanted to share with you what he had to say on the subject (paraphrased):

"How sad to think that some people see themselves as wretched, filthy, or 'dirty, rotten, sinners'.  God is love and He does not see us like that at all!  We (humans) are inherently good people who occasionally make mistakes.  Our lives have value and worth because we are the sons and daughters of God (literally).  And because we are His children, God wants what's best for us, and desires for us to be like Him and has laid out the (Mormon) gospel in such a way to help us achieve that."

I want to ask you - the one reading this blog - a question.  Do you agree or disagree with my friend?  I would encourage you to take a moment or two and really answer this question for yourself.  Go on...I'll wait.  

Have you done it yet?  Good!  So, now, that you've had some time to think about it, let me ask you one more question, and I think the more important of the two.  Does my friend agree with what the Bible says?  

Let's explore this last question using the Bible.

Ephesians 2:1-3

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom we all also once lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of its thoughts; and we were by nature children of wrath even as the rest."

Isaiah 64:6 (emphasis mine)

"But we are all as unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

1 John 1:8

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:23 (emphasis mine)

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Ecclesiastes 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Proverbs 20:9

Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"?

Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Mark 7:21-23 (emphasis mine)

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.  All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.

Psalm 51:5

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me

Romans 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

There are various other passages that can be used to define "total depravity" but I thought these would suffice to prove my point.  According to the world's standard, yes, one might say they are good.  So long as they don't go to jail, murder anyone, or any major crimes like that and if they pay their taxes, throw their trash away, go to work, help old ladies cross the street, or whatever they can call themselves a good person.  But, if you claim - like I do - to love God and follow His word (Bible) then you have no choice but to hold yourself to His higher standard and come to a very different conclusion.  In fact, you should come up with the exact opposite conclusion: You are not good at all.  And why do you get to this fact?  Because you are a sinner, and God does not take that lightly.  "For you are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; no evil dwells with You" (Psalm 5:4).  It makes sense that a Holy, Holy, Holy God would despise sin and completely separate Himself from it and those guilty of it because it can't even dwell in His presence.  Sin is His polar opposite.  Therefore, it is by this standard that we should look at ourselves, and by this standard where we receive a true answer to our question.

Truth be told, the Bible says there is no 'good' person alive.  Even those that do some good, realistically, those deeds are nothing but filth to God.  Our sins have seeped so deeply into our lives and our unrighteousness has dug us so deep a hole that we have absolutely no hope to even think we are even in the same vicinity as 'good'.  Our hearts and minds are wicked and evil.  And though we may desire to do good in the eyes of God, we are completely powerless to do otherwise.

But, is this such a surprise to you?  I mean, you know you're a sinner, right?  I mean, we all make mistakes.  Furthermore, if you were to honestly look at your own track record, you'd even have to admit that you fail according to your own standards.  For instance, how many promises have you broken to yourself?  How many times have you come short of what even you yourself would consider to be a 'good' person?  I'm guessing quite a few times, as have I.  How much more then have you...have I....have we all fallen from the Holy standard of God?  Moreover, God is clear that this reality is not reserved for the lowly or the mighty, to just the Jews, or the gentiles, or to the rich, or the poor, or whatever.  This failure is across the board.  It goes for everyone...every one...EVERYONE.  All of us are guilty and have fallen short.  It doesn't matter who you are, you stand condemned.

When I told my friend this he was audibly taken aback.  My friend asked, "Does this make you feel good?  Do you like hearing about how much of a failure you are?  Thinking that God sees you this way, does this make you feel good about yourself?"  To be honest...No.  No it doesn't.  But that doesn't change the fact that this is who I am.

HOWEVER...luckily, the good news is not in how we measure up to God's standard, or how the Bible describes us, but rather in how God dealt with this reality and demonstrated His glory, His love, His power, and His grace through His son, Jesus.

John 15:3

Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Romans 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Ephesians 2:4-5

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

So, yes, you are unworthy!  Yes, you are unclean!  Yes, you are a sinner!  Yes, you have failed!  Yes, you stand condemned! and no, you can't do anything to change that! But, know this also...God loves you! Yes, you can be forgiven!  Yes, you do have worth in the eyes of the Creator!  Yes, if you believe on His name, you will be saved!  No, you don't have to go to hell!  And yes, yes, yes, God is good! And of course, yes, all praise and honor and glory to the Father, forever and ever, amen!

You see, it was only when I was willing to honestly look myself for who I really was (according to the Bible) that I came to the realization that I needed to be forgiven, that I needed to be saved, that I needed redemption, that I needed grace, that I needed Jesus!  Thinking like this no longer brings despair or sadness, but great joy!  Yes, Lord, I am unholy...but You lord alone are 'good' and I worship You!  You have cleansed me and forgiven me and I will never forget that fact!  You gave me Your grace and now I am whole and I stand blameless before God because of You!  I stand with the angels and all of creation singing Your praises because You are my redeemer!  

It's not that I am bringing myself down so that I can raise God up, like some sort of religious pulley system (He doesn't need my help to be lifted high anyways).  Rather, I recognize how I truly stand before His throne and in doing so, I can now see God for who He really is!  You see, if I viewed myself as a 'good' person, I might deceive myself into thinking that I can earn salvation and lose sight of God.  I might act like I can do something right according to my own will and gain entry into His kingdom.  And you know what?  If I did that, I would end up losing my soul for all eternity.  Instead, I know who I am, I know what I've done, and I know that "Though [my] sins are like scarlet, they [are now] white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they [are] like wool" (Isaiah 1:18) all because of the blood of the perfect lamb, Jesus.

Amen!

So Many Questions...

I have quoted the LDS Prophet Lorenzo Snow often.  I even dedicated an entire chapter in my book to his teachings and doctrine.  For those of you who are unfamiliar, here is what he said:

Now, in my mind, this is the most famous quote - and most referenced - regarding God being a man.  But, this is not the only LDS prophet to insist that God is a man.  In fact, Joseph Smith started this idea in his King Follett sermon.  

"God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, 

and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great

secret.  ...If you were to see Him today, you would see Him

like a man in form - like yourselves in all the person, image, 

and very from as a man."

Now, I'm sure to even the least scholarly Christian, this doctrine seems a bit off from what they learn on Sundays from the pulpit.  And, the knowledgeable theologian can see a plethora of things Biblically wrong about these two statements and the dangers of what it implies.  If you want to read those types of arguments, please feel free to google "King Follett Discourse" and see for yourself all that smarter people than I have done in that area.  I like to try to tread different waters.  I like to just logically think things out and see if I can make sense of it.  So, instead, let's just presume they are right.  Ok?

God's Beginning

Now, since God was a man, he was born just like we were.  Most likely, he had parents like we do.  So, in my head God the Father has a beginning.  Ok, but then where did his parents come from?  And their parents? And their parents?  Somebody had to start the ball rolling, and this doctrine creates an infinite loop of origin confusion.  There has to be a starting point...somewhere!  

Additionally, I can see the argument arise that since Mormons hold the belief that they existed as spiritual babies/beings/spirits before we were given a body, maybe God was just at the start of this pool that is in heaven somewhere.  But then that creates an even more confusion.  Where did the 'soup' or 'pool' of this plethora of souls come from?  Does every man who is worthy to become a god (i.e. - "as God is now man may be") get to just pull souls from this pool when populating their world, or do mom and pa god (the worthy, devout, and righteous husband and wife) need to populate or 'refill' it?  If you're not LDS, I understand that I may have lost you at this point.  I'm sorry.  Lets move on.  

God's Sin
Secondly, since God was once like us, that means he most likely sinned.  Now this might strike a chord within you, but again...if we are to take this doctrine and break it down, we must look at all the angles.  So, try to just logically think it through.  God must have sinned, and not only sinned, but probably a lot.  Think about the most righteous man you can think of (other than Jesus).  That person sins...a lot.  So, while his list of sins may not be as long as mine, it's still pretty long.  

But we can't only look at the fact that he sinned, but what types of sin he may have been guilty of.  So, God could have been a liar, a cheater, a thief, an adulterer, a slanderer, an elitist, a chauvinist, a racist, a gossiper, a foul mouth, and/or a violent offender.  He could have been promiscuous, immoral, indecent, and an addict.  He could have been all of these or maybe just one of them.  Either way, he is, by His own standards set in the Bible, guilty and condemned.  So, if this were the case, would we, should we, and could we worship him?  Would that God, that guilty heavenly man, be worthy of such praise as this:

Psalm 106:1

Praise the LORD! Oh give thanks to the LORD, for He is good; For His loving kindness is everlasting 

Psalm 84:11

Praise the LORD, for the LORD is good; Sing praises to His name, for it is lovely.

Psalm 22:3

Yet You are holy, O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.

Isaiah 6:3

...Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory

Exodus 15:11

Who is like you among the gods, O LORD? Who is like You, majestic in holiness, Awesome in praises, working wonders?

Psalm 77:13

Your way, O God, is holy; What god is great like our God?

Psalm 33:21

For our heart rejoices in Him, because we trust in His holy name.

(This of course isn't an exhaustive list.  By no means!  

You can find hundreds upon hundreds of verses that only speak

 to the glory and honor and praise of God!)  

Anyways, I don't think that any sinful being would be worthy of such adoration, honor, and praise.  I mean, these words are eternal.  This praise is not just in the moment, but everlasting.  Isaiah says that the angels only job in heaven since creation is to speak how holy God is.  

Now, let me ask you, honestly...could you say this about yourself? About your spouse?  Your best friend?  Anyone you know?  No.  While we may be good by the worlds standards, we are not holy, holy, holy.  Even Mother Teresa, Ghandi, MLK Jr., any of the Apostles, nor anyone else you could think of is worthy of such praise.

God's Redemption

So, going back to our original assumption...if God was once a sinner, the Bible says (and Mormons agree) you need atonement.  Those sins need to be paid for and that sinner needs to be redeemed.  The Bible refers to it as Grace.  So, who showed grace to our God the Father?  Now, in Mormon theology, Jesus is God's firstborn son in heaven, meaning he is the first of the spirit babies.  So, God was redeemed before Jesus was ever formed.  So, that begs the question who redeemed our God? It would have to be another savior.  Who is this Savior that washed away the sins of our god and enabled him to progress and achieve Godhood and form our world and eventually us?  

Now this has always bothered me because of two primary reasons.

1. If our God's savior was holy enough to save our God from damnation, then shouldn't we worship that deity instead of our God?
   
2. Looking at God the Father's progression from created being, to sinner, to saved, to exalted, to God Mormonism teaches that if we follow the rules, we can do that too.  So, if I was holy enough to progress I could also become a God myself of my own world.  (This is in fact many Mormon's ultimate goal)  However, Jesus was God's firstborn son.  So, would my current firstborn son be the Jesus of my new world?  What if he also progressed.  He'd then be my world's savior and his own world's God?  How does that work?
   
   Or...maybe, our God didn't need a savior and my assumptions are way off.  Maybe he lived a perfect life and earned his way into heaven.  Then, lets assume then that Jesus was the first ever Christ.  Since I'm covered by His blood on the cross, would my new world also be covered by his blood?

Now, I have brought this up to several of my Mormon friends.  None of them had a answer.  Instead, I got the cookie-cutter LDS response of, "God has yet to reveal that to us." which is just basically saying, "I see what you're saying, and I see how confusing that is, but I believe this doctrine even though you can't logically extrapolate it out so I'll just come up with an answer that you can't argue with."  

...and I hate that answer because it is absolutely no help at all.

Conclusion

Is the fact that so many questions are able to be raised (and left unanswered) grounds for dismissal?  No.  Does this prove that the LDS doctrine is incorrect?  No.  In fact, this doesn't really prove anything, other than the fact that I can type a lot about nothing!  However, I think it is very telling of how drastically different the Mormon Church is from the Christian faith.  

Now, to be fair, the Christian beliefs generate a lot of questions too.  How can God be eternal?  How is it that one guys death is sufficient to cover the entire worlds sin?  How can God be one and in the same breath three?  Why does a God who created everything in this vast and gigantic galaxy care about me?  And honestly, I can't give you a satisfying answer on these either.  All I can say is that in the book that describes Him to us, it says all of these things are true about Him.  I don't know how it works.  

What helps me though is the difference from the place that the respective "answers" are coming from. I answer these with a foundation that is grounded in the study and understanding of the word of God, the mounds of evidence supporting the Bible's historical accuracy, Jesus, His life, ministry, death, and resurrection, and from my personal experiences from being born again.  Mormons on the other hand seem to answer questions like this from a completely different perspective.  They rely almost entirely on their faith, having little to no evidence for their scriptures, and a history that is peppered with false claims, false prophets, and misinterpreting scripture.  

Now, again, this doesn't really prove Mormonism is wrong.  But when you have a belief that is so elaborate and complex and yet cannot be elaborated on, that raises a red flag.  When the slightest questioning provokes a response of "we may never know" it becomes scary.  And I don't think I'm wrong in asking these questions, for they are the logical progression in thought.  I haven't even got an intelligent response or speculation.  And again, that's just...scary.

A Worshipful Heart

Worship.  While there are a lot of meanings, here is how I like to define it.  Worshiping something is to give honor and praise to it.  To be completely distracted by it, so much so that it is all you can think about.  To adore that something so much that your heart sings and dances every chance it gets.  In my opinion, which I get from reading the Bible, God is the only thing that deserves worship. And, I think Mormons would honestly probably agree with that idea.  They too believe that worship should be reserved for Him and Him alone.

Now, before I get started, I want to say a few things about...well...what I'm about to say.  I will be speaking out from personal observation.  These views and assumptions come from my inward, reflective look into my Mormon life and from observing other Mormons in many different arenas.

Ok... lets do this then.

When I was Mormon, I didn't worship God.  In fact, I don't even think I knew how.  True, I loved Him, or what I thought was Him, and very much so.  But I didn't really worship Him.  I sang songs to Him, but it was just reciting words on pitch.  I prayed to Him, but it was just mumbling words in reverence.  I went to church, but it was just a building I went to every Sunday morning.  I saw pictures of Him (sorry 2nd Commandment sticklers) and I just thought, "Yeah, I know that guy."

Looking back, I don't really remember anyone truly worshiping God.  Now, I know worship looks very different to a lot of people and because of that I know that I cannot say with 100% certainty.  But, with that being said, I honestly think you can tell a difference, at least most of the time, between someone who knows of God and someone who worships God just by having a conversation with them, or by watching them at church or live life.  Those who have been transformed and born again cannot help but cry out in worship in every facet of life.  Not perfectly, mind you...but still.  

Mormons are very, very, very, very nice people.  They are kind, generous, loving people.  They will serve you and help you any way they can.  However, I have had many conversations with many different Mormons of all ages, races, and locations and observed some of them (and myself) during church services.  I can honestly say that I have never seen a Mormon worship.  Sure, they love Jesus.  Sure they sing songs.  Sure they try to live a servant's life.  But, again from my perspective, the are simply going through the motions.  This was true for me as well.  I had convictions of why I believed what I believed and I could rationally argue with anyone why I was Mormon.  But there was no fire for God.  I wasn't in love with Him.  I didn't have a relationship with Him.  I didn't worship Him.

It wasn't until I was removed from the LDS doctrine and their call for rigorous obedience to their rules and ordinances that I truly began to worship Him.  When I realized the magnitude of what Jesus did on the cross for me, my heart leapt out of my chest in worship.  When I realized what He orchestrated in my life to grab a hold of me and save me from my sin, my soul cried out in praise.  When I hear the name of Jesus, I want to cry and laugh and sing and be still and silent in adoration of my God.  When I think about Him dying on the cross for the sins of the world and being raised again three days later so that I can never taste eternal death, I get goosebumps and chills!  GOD IS AMAZING!!!!!

Do you wanna see true worship?  Read Isaiah chapter 6.

"In the year that King Uzziah died, I (Isaiah) saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple.  Above him (God) were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.  And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."" (v. 1-3)

Isaiah sees these angels flying above God.  Their only job...their only job...their ONLY job is to fly and proclaim "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."  That's it.  What's more amazing...is that they are completely satisfied with only doing that for eternity!  AMAZING!  Just being in the presence of God, all these magnificent creatures can do...all they want to do...all of their being literally cries out to do...is give glory to God!  How great must our God be when the heavenly hosts while in His presence can only shout how good He is?!?

But wait...Isaiah isn't done...

""Woe to me!" I cried.  "I am ruined!  For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty."  Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.  With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."  Then i heard the voice of the lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here I am. Send me!"  (v. 5-8)

Isaiah is understandably freaking out.  The ground is shaking, angels are chanting, God is literally right in front of him, and he's like, "I'm gonna die!  This is it!  This is how it ends for me!"  But then the angel takes a searing, hot coal, touches his lips, and his sins are all forgiven.  Now, remember, this is before the cross.  This is before Jesus.  This is before the greatest story every told even happened.  So, Isaiah, is instantly forgiven and he is amazed.  He is marveling at what he is experiencing, this interaction with the living God.  So when God asks who will go for them, before anything else is said, Isaiah is like, "Yes Lord!  I'm here!  You are so good, sign me up!  After what I've just seen, I will do whatever you ask!"  I can almost hear him wanting to join the other angels in just simply worshiping God.

That is worship.  When all you can do is say "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty."  When all your soul, body, mind, spirit, heart, etc. just cries out, "Here I am. Send me!"  When you are completely in awe and wonder for everything surrounding God...that is when you worship.  I'm worshiping just writing these words!  GOD IS AMAZING!

And in all honestly, Mormons don't talk like that.  I've never seen a Mormon almost in tears of joy talking about their savior.  I've never had a conversation with a Mormon when I've left thinking, "Whoa...that person really loves the Lord."  I've never seen a Mormon sing "How Great Thou Art" with open arms and hands lifted in praise.  I've never seen a Mormon sing any hymn with any type of conviction.

Now, maybe I just never saw it.  Maybe there are tons of Mormons who can, have, and do praise and worship the true and living God (that is a possibility and I want to make it clear that it is a viable possibility).  Or, maybe I never saw it because it never truly happens.  Maybe I never saw it because it cannot happen so long as LDS doctrine remains as it is.  Maybe I never saw it because Mormonism doesn't point to the true God.  Maybe they don't preach the same Gospel that converted Saul, that the apostles died for, that Jesus hung on the cross for, that millions of people have been martyred over, and that the Bible proclaims.  Maybe their prophets are false and have diluted and perverted the gospel so much so that people have nothing to worship.  Maybe having to do a lot of works for salvation rather than just putting all their trust in Jesus has stripped their joy from them.  Again, maybe it's just me.

When I was LDS, I never knew God so I could never worship Him.  Of course, I knew the answers.  "Jesus died for me."  "God created the world."  "I am a child of God."  "He is risen."  But I never had a reason, or saw the point, of putting an exclamation instead of a period on any of those statements.  But when you know God, when you know you're saved, when you know how awesome, wonderful, powerful, mighty, strong, gracious, loving, kind, just, all knowing God is you cannot help but cry out in worship and praise!

I don't know who I'm writing to.  I don't know where you are in life.  But if you are feeling convicted, if you feel like, "You know what...I don't worship God" then maybe you need to have a conversation with Him.  Pray, right now - seriously, right now.  Stop reading this, close your eyes and pray to God.  Pray that He would save you.  Pray that He would awaken your dead heart and bring it to life in Jesus.  Pray for forgiveness of your sins, for healing, and know...truly know...that God is alive!

Lastly, I'll leave you with this.  I know that within the body of Christ people worship differently.  I know that it looks differently to everyone.  Some fall on their face, some sit quietly, some stand with arms raised, some just bow their head, some shout Hallelujah, some just lift their eyes, and it goes on and on.  I'm not saying people should worship like I do, or like this one church denomination does.  Not at all.  Variety is in our DNA, it's how God made us.  The importance isn't how you worship, but rather that you worship.  Mormons have no fire in their eyes, no burning in their hearts, no fear and trembling for God, no surrender.  I truly believe scripture is true:

"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." 

Matthew 15:8

Let not your heart be far from God.  Let your heart and mouth pour out praises to our Lord and King.  If it's in song, sing your heart out.  If it's in personal study, then fall in love with the Word, if it's just walking around, shout praises (or whisper them) to our Creator.  Just worship.

God Doesn't Make Sense

     The nature of God is crazy difficult to understand, even for the most educated theologians. God, in His holy word, describes Himself as a Holy Trinity of Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  They are not the same person as each other, yet they are all the same God; they are all God.  According to Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, "Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc.  These are demonstrations of personhood.  They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance.  They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful.  If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God."
    Now we all know, or at least if you've read my blog before you should be well aware, that Mormons do not believe in the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity.  Let me say it another way.  Every professing Christian denominational church embraces this belief in the Holy Trinity. Oddly enough, even though Mormons claim Christianity they also stand firm and deny the Holy Trinity doctrine.  They believe in a completely different Godhead than all other Christian churches...even though they claim to be a part of the Christian church.  This fact has always made me chuckle...but whatever...moving on.

     Having said this, I can hear my brother protest, "Dude.  You cannot POSSIBLY know that all the other Christian churches believe in what you claim to be the Christian doctrine of the nature of God."  Ok, bro.  Maybe this will help.  According to About Religion, there are a few Christian groups that do in fact reject the Trinity doctrine that I just described.  According to this study, these "rejectors" are the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Christian Scientists, the Armstrongisms, the Christadelphians, the Oneness Pentacostals, the Unification Church, the Unity School of Christianity, and the Scientologists.  Most of these Christian churches I've never even heard of, and I doubt most of you have as well.  This tells me that they are relatively small denominations and are not major movements in the church.  Furthermore, you can review what Religion Resources Online says about each religion and what it has to say on the Holy Trinity (see below).  One can see that most of the Christian Churches seem to state the same thing, albeit in different ways.  They all claim that the Holy Trinity doctrine is Biblical and they believe it, profess it, and live by it.

     Now, I wanted to talk about this because I've had many conversations with Mormons that just cannot and will not believe in the Holy Trinity.  In my experience, it basically boils down to the fact that Mormons find the Christian doctrine of a Holy Trinity as being too confusing and therefore untrue.  Now, I will not deny that this doctrine is confusing, because it is.  As I said earlier, even the best theologians cannot fully grasp the idea that is God.  However, just because a teaching is confusing does not mean it cannot be true.

     Throughout history, a lot of people have tried to rationally explain God because a doctrine that is hard to explain is bothersome.  Believing in something that cannot be fully comprehended is very troubling.  When you can't fully explain something, you can't fully defend it, and therefore your beliefs are weak (or at least that is the perception).  Mormons have then followed the path many have taken and tried to humanize and rationalize God to fit into something they can understand.  That is why the Mormon God makes sense.  He's a guy that became God, got married, had a son, sent that son to die on a cross, and is now seated in glory in heaven awaiting our return.  That makes sense.  That's a God that I can understand.  (although there is the question of where that God came from, and so on, and so on, but...whatever...moving on)

     Funny thing is, Mormons weren't the first to try and fit God in a box.  Back in the early church, there was a belief circulating around called Arianism.  Arianism was the belief that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are creations of God but not one in nature with Him.  This heretical idea gained so much popularity within the church that it spawned the First Ecumenical Council at Nicea and the creation of the Nicene Creed in response.  So many people were straying from Biblical teaching that it was tearing the church apart.  The church in response created this creed that would unify the church body and uphold the Biblical view of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit.  

     There was also something called Modalism.  This states that God merely manifested Himself in three modes or forms.  It states that God is a single being that morphs into the Father, then the Son, and then the Holy Spirit.  These modes are consecutive but never simultaneous.  Another belief was in the doctrine of Partialism.  Partialism states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit all add up to make God.  By themselves, they are only a portion of God, but together they form 1 complete God.  All of these by the way have been declared by the Church as being heretical in nature and we are advised not to believe or preach them.  

     All that to say, even our best explanations of God are wrong.  To fully grasp our creator, it would seem that we need to compromise some part of scripture.  The reason being is that our finite human minds will never be able to explain or even comprehend the Biblical doctrine of God.  But that's a good thing!  It can even actually strengthen our faith!  

     Lets take the idea of how God is Eternal, or Infinite.  Now, since I am a math guy, I can only show you how crazy infinity is by using math.  Take the integers for instance (i.e - the numbers ... -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, ...).  Now, the set of integers is infinite, meaning you will never run out of integers!  This means you can write any integer and I could come up with one bigger or smaller, or both!  But lets take the idea of infinity even further, to something that is crazy difficult to explain but mathematically sound.

Let's look at the real number line.

Now, if we were to pick a number between 1 and 2 we'd have a lot of choices.  Well, mathematically speaking we'd have an infinite amount of choices.  We could choose 1.1, or 1.41, or 1.9001, or 1.5, or 1.9896369863, or.... you get the picture.  So lets narrow it down even further.  Let's choose a number between 1 and 1.1.  But we run into the same problem.  I can pick 1.01, 1.005, 1.0999999, etc.  The same thing would keep happening even if we picked a number between 1 and 1.00000000000000001.  This is because the real numbers are infinite.  Now here's the crazy part.  Because of this, we cannot name two consecutive real numbers.  Since there are an infinite amount of real numbers, there are an infinite amount of numbers in between them.  This means there are no two numbers "touching" thus revealing "gaps" between all the real numbers!  That's just crazy talk!!!

     Hopefully your mind is not completely blown yet, because I need you to hear this point.  Remember God is infinite.  God is 100% just, yet 100% merciful.  He is grace, but also truth.  The Bible, the book that God wrote about Himself, makes some pretty crazy claims regarding His nature.  A lot of it we cannot fully comprehend, but that doesn't mean it's bad theology.  It means that we have an awesome God that cannot be contained!  How can God speak and light appear?  I don't know, but the Bible says He did it.  How can God make man out of dust?  I don't know, but the Bible says He did it.  How could a man Jesus never have sinned?  I don't know, but the Bible says He did it.  How can God make all that I've seen and will ever see in only six days out of nothing?  I don't know, but the Bible says He did it.  How can Jesus die for me, a man who deserves neither His grace or His affection?  I don't know, but the Bible says He did it.  How can Jesus be God and His son?  I don't know, but that's what the Bible says.  How can God be three in one?  I don't know, but that's what the Bible says.  Maybe instead of trying to fit God into our understanding, we should try to fit our understanding on God.  Maybe instead of trying to rationalize God and overlook a few passages in the Bible to make God into something that we can fully comprehend we should take God at His word and marvel that we have no idea how to even comprehend Him.  Stop trying to make God fit your world, because He wont fit.  God is too powerful, too big, too mighty, too great, too omnipotent, too Holy, Holy, Holy, too perfect, too much to fit into our imperfect little minds.     

  

References:

https://carm.org/trinity

http://christianity.about.com/od/christiandoctrines/tp/denytrinity.htm 

http://www.religionresourcesonline.org/different-types-of-religion/compare/holy-trinity.php